It is the correct way; you separated the Marxist philosophy from the administration of the governments of their parties in various parts of the world after success of the Russian revolution. After the Chinese revolution under the command of Mao, who has some reservations on the administration of the Stalin and on his policy of building of the Russian society and made some remarks on different issues. Russian and Chinese leaders have some differences on various issues on both subjects of internal matters and external policies against each other as well as against other states globally. On international level the building up of the communist revolutions, the international body was divided. And could not rise till now where it was fell down. After the end of Soviet Union with its cold war us has gained ground. Here we can now see the differences among the communist leaders and its states on different issues are rising from time to time. At the same time American hegemony has gained the ground, the role of hunting the deer is on the Russian part and sharing meet is the part of G5 or G of more than five. Market capitalism has it own compulsions, under which the great nation, United States is trapped and trying to recover from its recession. The world history has seen so many up and downs of rise and decline of great dynasties from Egyptian pharaoh Hitler including all such infamous dictators in the world. In all these developments in all global states, the religion has played some role (much or less) in fastening the developments of the society of each states and the nature of the states from feudal to the present different capital states in nature of the society. Here the thing what I would like to say is, the Marxism and its entirety anywhere from the writings of Marx to Mao, the role of religion or its affiliations with the society and its members nowhere describes any form in direct way or in indirect method but it has been seen as the super structure of the society and have the impact on the society vice verse. This is another story with its linkage to the society in the view of Marxist philosophy. Here we have another example regarding the Nizam government in Telangana state where the people of it were different religion of the nizam ruler, and the Kashmir issue was also the same and that much complicated still in Indian politics and for the Indian government. Nizam was the moslim by faith and his people were hindus, at the same time, the kashmiries where the muslims by faith and their ruler was hundu religion, maharaja hari sigh, who wanted to merge the Kashmir into India and the the nizam was some more or less interested to merge into India due having his own calculations in his mind.. These two rulers were faced the same problem of merge into union. There the maharaja was not much crueler towards his people in Kashmir than the razakars king in out telangana. Because kashmiries did not wage the war maharaja hari singh but they were in interest to go with Pakistan by the way of having the faith in their religious rulers of Pakistan . The same action of the union government was taken against them by sending the troops to save the king hari singh. Here the difference was that the people who wanted only a bit of land for their lively hood as they were in that work. The united comminist party also was deviated to some extent to continue the war against the nizam who was already signed the pack with the government of India and handed over the rule to the military. The point was rised in the minds of the Andhra committee to continue its war against the government of India . Of them some opposed this idea. The central committee of the cpi was forcing the Andhra committee to with draw the fight against the union. At the same time Russian leadership with help of Nehru and central team convince the Andhra to withdraw the warring policy on some relaxations. Till withdrawal of the war against the government they were occupied more than 70000 acres of land of land laords. P sundaraiah also voluntarily handed over their lands to the poor in ap. Now I like to conclude here with some convictions that the telangana armed struggle was purely based on the class only and continued in its way till they dropped from the wars. After that armed struggle the same Indian and ap rulers also followed the same policy of killings in the way of struggles on class basis. In all encounter killings most of them were sc ,st , bc sections including fc people. Here these people have the same faith by the religion of Hinduism. So they could be spared on the name of their religion. Economical loss is the greatest loss of all losses what the history has proved it as the poisonous fact. As a nature of human being no one would for get the economical loss whtever he/she receives and the same feeling will pass from generations to generations. They never forget it. So that telangana armend struggle was waged only for the land and safety for their lives. All that was they got in ap by the consequent rules of the governments. The Marxism, also in this case has to go with many changes in its philosophy philosophically only.. Just because nothing is absolute in the world--- On Wed, 16/9/09, Dr.Vidyasagar Sriramoju
From: Dr.Vidyasagar Sriramoju
Dear Ayub
Thank you for your reply. The Communist governments failed & gone and some are failing. What failed the the Communist system of the government But not its scientific Rational materialist philosophical basis which has nothing to do with Communist political system of rule. Thats the reason anytime if some one wants a major social or political or economic or religious reform they call him and brand him as socialist , communist etc, best such example is President Obama who often reffered as a 'Socialist' because of his views on Taxation issues and health care reform. All educated socially conscious individuals should " See the truth in only the truth but not truth in untruth" . "You cannot get Mango fruits from a Cactus plant". Same applies to any religious fanaticism.--- On Tue, 9/15/09, ayub mohammed
From: ayub mohammed
"So on simillar lines in the Princely State of Hyderabad the class oppression and religious oppression were highly emalgamated and were the key instruments for the feudal administration"
vidyasager garu,
you have given a suitable reference here about the communists and their terminology, except the above conviction which is out of context of your own. i have nothing to say anymore.
i thought to reply to gopalreddy' on the starting of the sentence with"i think", which is i decided to leave him in his thinking untill he come out from it to the reality of the past in literature what it has been so related as we all aware.
telangana armed struggle was based on the land issue. the peasants occupied some thousands of acres of land of the deshmukhs and landlords, so puchchalapally sundaraiah's book on these issues has detailed report of their struggle. --- On Wed, 16/9/09, Dr.Vidyasagar Sriramoju
From: Dr.Vidyasagar Sriramoju
Before we make our own conclusions about Telangana peasant rebellion lets define our terminology
1. Class: The notion of class as defined by bourgeois social theory. According to modern capitalist thinking, class is an abstract universal defined by the common attributes of its members (Example;all who make less than 20,000 a year constitute a "lower" class); categories and conceptions that have an existence prior to and independent of the people who make up the class. a best definition for easy the use by oppurtunists with selfish motives.
For dialectical materialism - the notion of class : This includes the development of collective consciousness in a class – arising from the material basis of having in common relations to the labour process and the means of production. "These social relations between the producers, and the conditions under which they exchange their activities and share in the total act of production, will naturally vary according to the character of the means of production". Acceptable for Hyderabad
2. On Religion: As defined in materialist terms: as cited by Marx's in "A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right".
Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet found himself or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being encamped outside the world. Man is the world of man, the state, society. This state, this society, produce religion, an inverted world-consciousness , because they are an inverted world. Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and also the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of spiritless conditions. It is the opium of the people. Therefore the criticism of religion is in embryo the criticism of the vale of tears, the halo of which is religion. (in other words crititical analysis of religion in society is an essential component for the understabding the core of human suffering that is encased in the aura of fantasy of spiritual aroma of religion). 3. Class Struggle: Classes emerge only at a certain stage in the development of the productive forces and the social division of labour, when there exists a social surplus of production, which makes it possible for one class to benefit by the expropriation of another. The conflict between classes there begins, founded in the division of the social surplus.
Class struggle underlies most political struggle. But class struggle certainly is not the only form of struggle in society! Race, religion and gender related oppression and struggle are some of the foremost examples of struggle that is not based on class. While these struggles happen in a definite class environment, race, religion and gender oppression is not always based on economic reasons, but also can exist as a result of archaic social understanding. For example, in the 18th-century United States, Negro slavery was imperative for the survival of the cotton and tobacco industry in the south – thus, racial discrimination had a definite class basis: the maintenance of a class of slaves. In the struggle for their emancipation, a Civil War was necessary to break Blacks out of slavery and into proletarian existence. So on simillar lines in the Princely State of Hyderabad the class oppression and religious oppression were highly emalgamated and were the key instruments for the feudal administration. In a feudal state of hyderabad where the rulers used religion as an instrument for the maintenance classes of serfs and bonded labourers. In contemporary world Irrespective of the type of the SECULAR government- Let that be a capitalist, or democratic or socialist or communist , whatever be the idealogical basis of the government - THERE IS NO SAFE HEAVEN ORTHODOX RELIGIOUS FANATICS IN MODERN HIGHTECH INDUSTRIAL ERA. THESE RELIGIOUS FANATICS ARE THE LIVING FOSSILS OR VESTIGES PATHOLOGIC PAST OF HUMAN HISTORY
Therefore the fight against the religious descrimination and all religious fanatics equally is the integral component of class struggle for a Classless state. Now you decide...
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Gopal Reddy Gade
From: Gopal Reddy Gade
Hi Friends
I think you are missing the distinction between razajakars atrocities and Telangana Sayudha poratam (communist struggle) they are not the same. One is totally anarchic elements committing atrocities in the country side and the other is a class struggle against feudal society. Razakars were unleashed by powers that were then. I believe it was kasim Razvi under Nizam who did that. After Andhra state was formed at the time of states reorganization Communists favored Viashalandhra probably hoping feudalism of Telangana could be better contained in a larger state. Of course Communist leadership was in Andhra’s hands then. Also Burugula Ramakrishna Rao also did not favor separate Telangana state. May be it is because he might have thought Reddys will be too powerful in Telangana state. It was sheer short sightedness of eiether powerful entities then. There never were any Hindu Muslim animosities then or now. It is just a reflection of patronage politics Congress (YSR) managing Muslim leadership in the state.
Bye
Gopal
From: tdf-discuss@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:tdf- discuss@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of ayub mohammedSent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:40 PMTo: tdf-discuss@ yahoogroups. comSubject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Where the Telangana Pride has Gone?
Dear venkat garu,
It is the fact you described and I agreed that, the armed struggle of Telangana against the king Nizam was based on the class, in which more than five thousand people were lost their lives, who were belonged to the working class of the feudalism in our Telangana.
. The armed struggle of Telangana was the reaction and revolt against the then king Nizam, who did not see anybody in his suppressive measures as he was to do that irrespective of this religion and his religious people in his killings in which all the people who came from all casts and religions irrespective of their religious attachments to the Nizam and were participated against him under the command of united communist party of India
.
Actually this is the subject we have to discuss and should go in this way as there is no need of the religion and its attachments to Nizam or peasants of Telangana people. Many Muslims lost their lives in the same revolt. Nizam did not spare the any Muslim on the name of religion and the people also did not see the religion of Nizam
But I saw so many meetings organized by the bjp in glorifying the armed struggle and called them that” Anti-Razakars week” in the recent past. The Bjp has no such policy to support any mass struggles in their history and in the practice of their mother organizations, Rss and Vhp in their whole history except Agp in Assam the reason of their support in Assam is best known to all. So I just indicated the point which is in mind to keep the Telangana armed struggle” clean” in its original color of red despite green or saffron as these are the colors(known for misusing) of religions.
Jai Telangana.
Ayub mohammed--- On Tue, 15/9/09, Venkat Maroju
From: Venkat Maroju
Dear Vidyasagar and Ayub,You both bring up very good point about the last years of Nizam rule which is inevitably linked with infamous Razakars. Infact, I remember our elders referring to that period as "Razakar Time" or "Razakar Jamana". But infact in the history books of highest recognition - they have always referred to it as "Telangana Peasants Movement" or "Telangana Sayudha Poratam". It is also very easy for the opportunists to color this glorious period of historic peoples uprising against a powerful king and his coterie of landlords (Doras) as a fight between hindus and muslims - but infact any one with little brains can see it is not that way. But it is a fight between a autocratic fuedal rulers versus its common people who wanted more democratic rule instead of autocracy. Agreed that Nizam was the muslim king of entire Hyderabad state - but most of the atrocities committed by the ruling machinery with razakars help were by the feudal lords in the villages who are by and large were hindus. There are also many examples of common muslim people who fought against Nizam's rule during razakar time - so the argument of Hindu vs Muslim is meaningless. Infact, it is also well known that the Indian military when they attacked hyderabad - they also killed many sayudha porata veerulu and also put many of them in jail.On a personal note - our neighbors in Jangaon town have been muslims for the past 60-70 years. As any one knows about the Telangana Sayudha Poratam - Jangaon was the epicenter of this great historic movement and during that time our muslim neighbors and our family protected each other when razakars and communists attacked the village. I am sure there are many such stories throught out Telangana. So let us never refer to this as fight between hindu vs muslim.Jai TelanganaVenkat Maroju--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Vidyasagar Sriramoju
From: Vidyasagar Sriramoju
Dear Ayyub Mohammed
My statements are NOT based on any political or religious inclinatio ns or affiliations. Islam or any other faith are not in the context here, Only and absolutely Telangana people's struggles for freedom, honour and their social identity are of my primary concern without any special reference to any political idealogy or religion. The common folk from all sects and religions in Telangana always just desparately wanted to survive with dignity, they never cared fanatically about the religion.The views expressed are based on the life experiences of my grand parents and uncles who fled from Nalgonda district to Macherla under persecution by Razakar militia in mid 1940s. They all returned back to our native villages after police action. My grand father was a freedom fighter (who recently passed away at age of 92+ years) who survived just by stroke of luck in 1940s. Facts of the history are often bitter and uncomfortable, but we cannot change the facts for our convenience, There was NO Congress party and NO BJP in 1940s in Hyderabad state in a significant role. However there were razakar groups. Infact The Nizam rulers ruled in a secular fashion untill the end of 1930s , the violence was perpetrated only a powerful radical fraction within Nizam administration in 1940s. Remember that not all muslims were Razakars and Not all Hindus were kind to a Telangana common man during those times. The people of Telangana of all faiths were always the victims of the greed of fellow Telanganites which is continuing even today. Since generations we never had any specific political or fanatic religious group affiliation. Asking for a memorial for those who suffered and lost lives for common good is not a political or a religious agenda. A person with unbiased moral consciousness and belief in absolute truth will not say that my earlier statements have such political and religious intonations.
What we the Telangana people need is the Progress and development for our Telangana land and All Telangana people.
Hope This clears your doubts about views expressed earlier.
Best regards
Dr.Vidyasagar
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:38 AM, ayub mohammed
Dear vidyasager garu/all other list members,
While referencing the Razakars, their militia and their oppressive meansures, you all here in the list and in public by the Bjp’s influenced political activities what I call it for now, have been habituated to include the their religion, Islam as act of mischievous trickery while in the real friends or public circles, gives the indication that you all like, the Bjp has bias against the Muslims and their religion Islam since the origin of the Trs in Ap. It is because most the cadre of Trs belonged to the Bjp. So that you all are continuing the same public addressing system. You even did not think to notice how they feel on your system of willful act of hurting with the name of religious attachment to your own people of Telangana. The Muslims since formation of trs, the factor what I am discussing here was already analyzed about the nature and its people in mind and confirmed that the trs and its cadre have such anti-Muslim ideas, during its initial days of formation in Telengana, and decided to keep ourselves out from its fold. The consequences of all such acts of Trs we all now experienced as well. If it is your intention to hurt and address them in this way of adding their religion to Razakars while speaking in any form in public I say the Razakars or their militia which did not see the difference of religions in their oppressive measures for their own interest as a common factor of the ruling methodology of the oppressed class in our state. And our country has more experienced with their ruling during which they showed how actually the cruelty is in Indian history. However I request you all list members to consider my request for better understanding the people and the society in our list at least if not, out side activities.
Ayub mohammed --- On Mon, 14/9/09, Vidyasagar Sriramoju
From: Vidyasagar Sriramoju
Warangal and Nalgonda districts were the seats of Peasant resistance in 1940s against Islamic militia- Razakars. The peace loving small farmers, artisans of Telangana - men, women and children fought bravely and lost lives in thousands. Later in early 70s 400+ students got killed in police firings. Shameless Telangana leadership forgot the the sacrifices made by these poor and innocent rural folk. None of these groups ever had a significant memororial- If there is any moral consciousness in any of the political parties and groups, irrespective of their party lines they should come forward and build a Hyderabad state/Telangana freedom fighters memorial park with a statue in tribute to Unknown freedom fighters of our land. Please dont forget the sacrifices these patriotic poor people especially those who fought against Razakars wanted to join the Indian union in 1947 - 48. Though these people were lead by left parties infact they are all uneducated working people who donot know any poitical idealogy they just fought for their land and people and they all believed in god and what is right and wrong. Friends forgetting the sacrifices made by our forefathers starting from the fall of Kakateeya dynasty in 1300 AD circa , now dont sell your souls and Telangana pride for your political and class advantages.
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